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andrew replied to the topic 1.3 Memory and revelation in the forum <i>Jesus the Forgiving Victim</i> Online Course Discussion Forum 6 years, 1 month ago
– James describes our memories as being constructed from our attempts to start to tell a story about ourselves. What memories play an important role in your story?
I’d have a very difficult time telling a single story about myself. I’ve lived in several different places among discrete communities that know very little to nothing of each other. The…[Read more] -
Sheelah replied to the topic 1.3 Memory and revelation in the forum <i>Jesus the Forgiving Victim</i> Online Course Discussion Forum 6 years, 1 month ago
Yes Andrew, that is a good way of looking at it. James tells us that “The gospel story is a story told by people who are not good, about something which happened in their midst and which shook up their previous sense of goodness, giving them a longing for a quite other sort of goodness, which they found themselves becoming at the hands of…[Read more]
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Sheelah replied to the topic 1.3 Memory and revelation in the forum <i>Jesus the Forgiving Victim</i> Online Course Discussion Forum 6 years, 1 month ago
Yes Andrew, that is a good way of looking at it. James tells us that “The gospel story is a story told by people who are not good, about something which happened in their midst and which shook up their previous sense of goodness, giving them a longing for a quite other sort of goodness, which they found themselves becoming at the hands of…[Read more]
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Sheelah replied to the topic 1.3 Memory and revelation in the forum <i>Jesus the Forgiving Victim</i> Online Course Discussion Forum 6 years, 1 month ago
Yes Andrew, that is a good way of looking at it James tells us that “The gospel story is a story told by people who are not good, about something which happened in their midst and which shook up their previous sense of goodness, giving them a longing for a quite other sort of goodness, which they found themselves becoming at the hands of someone…[Read more]
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andrew replied to the topic 1.3 Memory and revelation in the forum <i>Jesus the Forgiving Victim</i> Online Course Discussion Forum 6 years, 1 month ago
— Write some ways you would complete this sentence: “Good people are good because they…”
… can (i) wrangle other people’s aggressions with creative dexterity and (ii) reject the excuses people regularly make when they want to vent their frustrations on another. I think the Bible calls the first one grace and the second one mercy.
— Why might…[Read more]
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Sheelah replied to the topic 1.3 Memory and revelation in the forum <i>Jesus the Forgiving Victim</i> Online Course Discussion Forum 6 years, 1 month ago
Andrew, please excuse my tardiness, I have been travelling. What you have written here is beautiful, ‘if I insist on winning an argument over two incompatible readings of a passage, then I risk transforming the text into a tool by which to undermine an opponent.” Absolutely ! For me, the most transforming aspect of James’ teaching is learn…[Read more]
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andrew replied to the topic 1.3 Memory and revelation in the forum <i>Jesus the Forgiving Victim</i> Online Course Discussion Forum 6 years, 2 months ago
— Share ways in which you have noticed the content, questions or insights from the previous Module showing up in your lives.
Yesterday evening* during a Sunday School class I was leading, one participant put forward a reading that was incompatible with the one I had put forward. The specifics are immaterial to us here (I believe), but I’ll m…[Read more]
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andrew replied to the topic 1.2 The social other in the forum <i>Jesus the Forgiving Victim</i> Online Course Discussion Forum 6 years, 2 months ago
–Share your thoughts on how recognizing our dependence on the social other changes how we understand ourselves.
If I can be a self apart from others, then presumably I can understand myself through a solitary self-sustained contemplation of selves (with “me” being one example).
If, by contrast, I cannot be a self apart from the social other,…[Read more]
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andrew replied to the topic 1.2 The social other in the forum <i>Jesus the Forgiving Victim</i> Online Course Discussion Forum 6 years, 2 months ago
Yes, I can and will put aside the words “peer” and “equal” when I talk about internal mediation. However, please know that I am confused as to why I should. The phrase you use to define internal mediation (“same immediate life setting”) seems to be equivalent in substance to what people regularly mean by “peer.” In fact, I can’t think of a more c…[Read more]
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Sheelah replied to the topic 1.2 The social other in the forum <i>Jesus the Forgiving Victim</i> Online Course Discussion Forum 6 years, 2 months ago
Andrew, how about we look at it like this. We put aside for the moment the words “peer’ and “equal” and think of it like this. When mimesis occurs between persons in the same immediate life setting, violence is most likely to erupt, as the model, being very similar to the subject, is always potentially a rival. (Internal mediation) When mimesis…[Read more]
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andrew replied to the topic 1.2 The social other in the forum <i>Jesus the Forgiving Victim</i> Online Course Discussion Forum 6 years, 2 months ago
I think Girard is probably right to affirm the possibility that a larger group can tell the truth in a way that does not scapegoat. My point is that, when this happens, the larger group is not speaking to a peer. Rather, they are speaking to a companion who is misinformed or deceived. This companion, however, should not be viewed as an equal…[Read more]
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Sheelah replied to the topic 1.2 The social other in the forum <i>Jesus the Forgiving Victim</i> Online Course Discussion Forum 6 years, 2 months ago
Andrew, you write that “peer pressure is mimetic; but not all mimesis is peer pressure”. This is absolutely correct, mimesis is like gravity, we live in a sort of web of mimetic desire, and this is what makes us human. Peer pressure is just one of its frequent and diverse manifestations.
“The pressures exerted back and forth among parti…[Read more]
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andrew replied to the topic 1.2 The social other in the forum <i>Jesus the Forgiving Victim</i> Online Course Discussion Forum 6 years, 2 months ago
The content of all you are saying makes good sense, Sheelah. I only want to clarify our terms. I’ll grant that mimesis is an aspect of human nature that “just exists, and can have a good or bad influence.” I don’t, however, feel it is accurate to say the same for peer pressure. Peer pressure is mimetic; but not all mimesis is peer pressur…[Read more]
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Sheelah replied to the topic 1.2 The social other in the forum <i>Jesus the Forgiving Victim</i> Online Course Discussion Forum 6 years, 2 months ago
Now the ‘social other’ is all those people and things which over time shape us as a person, and as you say Andrew, “peer pressure is one manner among many of how someone can induct the desires of others”. Peer pressure can be a group or an individual, or something from the corporate world, such as the advertising industry, which tells us that…[Read more]
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andrew replied to the topic 1.2 The social other in the forum <i>Jesus the Forgiving Victim</i> Online Course Discussion Forum 6 years, 2 months ago
– Can you describe “peer pressure” in terms of the social other?
Yes, “peer pressure” is one manner among many of how someone can induct the desires of others. What sets peer pressure apart from other inducted behaviors, it would seem to me, is that “peer pressure” implies that those who possess the desire originally are consciously attempting…[Read more]
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Sheelah replied to the topic 1.2 The social other in the forum <i>Jesus the Forgiving Victim</i> Online Course Discussion Forum 6 years, 2 months ago
Andrew, I am delighted that you are ‘enthralled by James’ manner of explication and want to learn a bit more’. As you progress with the course, I am sure that you will find it truely life changing.
James’ use of the phrase ‘who you are is something which the social other produces in you’ means I think, just that. He is referring to the process…[Read more] -
andrew replied to the topic 1.2 The social other in the forum <i>Jesus the Forgiving Victim</i> Online Course Discussion Forum 6 years, 2 months ago
– What do you think about the concept of the social other? Does it makes sense to you or do you have questions about it?
I found Fr Alison’s lesson to be an eloquent and a remarkably accessible presentation of a confounding idea. If I ask a nitpicky question or two, it is only because I’m enthralled by his manner of explication and want to lea…[Read more]
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Sheelah replied to the topic 1.2 The social other in the forum <i>Jesus the Forgiving Victim</i> Online Course Discussion Forum 6 years, 3 months ago
That all sounds extremely positive Andrew. If you continue to let Jesus the Forgiving Victim guide you, I am sure it will enrich you with a deeper understanding of Christianity.
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andrew replied to the topic 1.1 An odd beginning in the forum <i>Jesus the Forgiving Victim</i> Online Course Discussion Forum 6 years, 3 months ago
Yes, Sheelah, much of what you say makes good sense. A few parts did leave me a little puzzled, but that only serves to whet my appetite for more of Fr Alison’s lessons. I am very excited about this class and (for whatever it’s worth) it has already far exceeded my expectations. There is, however, one particular point of confusion that was not…[Read more]
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Sheelah replied to the topic 1.1 An odd beginning in the forum <i>Jesus the Forgiving Victim</i> Online Course Discussion Forum 6 years, 3 months ago
Why do you think this course is subtitled, “Listening for the Unheard Voice”?
I’m guessing it’s because people effortlessly fall into the habit of ignoring the voice of God, and this course is designed to develop a conscious practice to replace this habituation of which we are unaware.Yes Andrew, and also because I think that God’s message…[Read more]
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